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  • Something To Learn From

    So fat developer cannot even see(while working) how the screen will look like.
    Moving around elements on the page is very limited but despite of those limitations I think SC is still very good product (I wish just less bugs).

    I really wish Net Make will start thinking about implementing visual design.
    http://videos.lianja.com/

    Art
    -----------------------------------------
    Arthur Klisiewicz
    dATA POINT SOFTWARE
    www.datapointsoftware.com

  • #2
    Bugs will exist in any system, the difference this time is that the resolved bugs, i working two years with Scriptcase in Brazil. I have nothing to complain about yet!

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, I'm a happy user too. But some bugs persists for a long time and the native language of the SC devs is Portugese. Most of us here use English. This is a real barrier if you need support. Some bugs are simply not solved for a long time which is irritating if you need the functionality. Questions to SC support are often misunderstood due to language problems. Beta testing is another issue. On every big change in version 6-> 7, 7 -> 7.1 there are loads and loads of problems. They are being solved, I agree, but lot of these issues shouldn't be there when you finalize and had a decent beta test. I can continue but I won't. I wouldn't be so active on this forum, and be a reseller etc. if I didn't like the product. I believe it has big opportunities, but the product could even be better if some things where professionalized. Mentality here in Europ/US is completely different than in Brazil ;-)
      Albert Drent
      aducom software netherlands
      scriptcase partner, reseller, support and (turn-key) development
      www.scriptcase.eu / www.scriptcase.nl

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello,

        I have just sent your suggestion to our team.

        regards,
        Bernhard Bernsmann

        Comment


        • #5
          About the "Mentality" between Europe(EUA) and Brazil, you spoke correctly! But I do not see language as a form of barrier to solving some problems.

          Comment


          • #6
            Most devs only speak / write Portuguese and no English at all. If that's not a language barier, then I don't know what is ;-) If you write to support (in English) you get answers on questions you haven't asked. Well, perhaps not completely true, but unfortunately very often it is.
            Albert Drent
            aducom software netherlands
            scriptcase partner, reseller, support and (turn-key) development
            www.scriptcase.eu / www.scriptcase.nl

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by aducom View Post
              If you write to support (in English) you get answers on questions you haven't asked.
              could you because at least do something with the answer? Maybe, FredKeyster can interpret ...
              Best regards: - Reinhard -

              I use ScriptCase 8 Enterprise Edition, Version 8.(latest)

              Comment


              • #8
                Ok, sometimes there wasn't any answer, just more questions (LOL)
                Albert Drent
                aducom software netherlands
                scriptcase partner, reseller, support and (turn-key) development
                www.scriptcase.eu / www.scriptcase.nl

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, I have commented on the language problems many times, and at some point I even got a warning form the forum admin (not really nice), as this becoming really frustrating and if one wants to make a list of most complained issues it would probably look like this:
                  1. support and documentation
                  2. bugs havent't been fixed for long time
                  3. ....put yours here.........

                  I have a bug in one of my Apps (due to the SC bug) for example which prevents me to publish the App. This bug lasts from SC5 (while it is still present in SC7.1).
                  ..so probably there is no need to explain enything else.
                  Of course there are minor bugs and there are workarounds for those, and there are major bugs which prevent form serious development.

                  what bothers me the most is the fact that NetMake asks many people to contact Customer Support in order to deal with SC bugs. In many cases developers are not responsible for those bugs, but NetMake wants them to pay for extended support.
                  This kind of policy is insane! At some point I was cooperating with NetMake working on language corrections. For some (not known to me) reason they decided not to continue, so we can probably expect more and more language problems. The manual in many places makes no sense, the documentation, examples etc. on the website also needs some fixes. That was one of the main reasons I did not become a SC reseller, altough we were inteded to.

                  As a developer I worked in several places in EU, Canada and US. I use at least 4-5 software tools which comes from countries where English is not a native language, but the DOCs and support is so much better. How is it possible that the company in Germany (for example) can manage their product/support/website and documentation in English without problems and NetMake cannot. Perhaps this requires an understanding the going internationally reuqires a little bit more than just a product.

                  In many cases vendor wants to make new version of software just to make some profit on upgrade, while not fixing existing bugs (or at least not all of them). This is short-vision policy and in a long run will never work for the company (neither for developer who uses the tools). We have a god example with Micrisoft after releasing Windows-Vista (which was the worst crap ever released from MS). 80% of IT people hate Vista and try to stay away from it. Would this also happen to SC ? Don't know but I'm getting really frustrated. Ibelieve if NetMake would cooperate more with people aroung the world who can bring some value to the company and at the same time speak god English it would help a lot.

                  Finally - the only reason that NetMake could offer paid user support should be for cases where user has very unusuall development need and this require some extra time from NM to help.
                  There are several developers (that I know) who quit using SC simply because of the problem mentioned above. I personally requested some help regarding some bugs through the direwct contact to the company and after 2-3 week hasn't got any response. Of course I'm not planing to pay for support just to have them bugs fixed.

                  Script Case is a great development idea which could easilly become absolutely the most efficient development tool. The value of the concept in SC is undeniable!
                  If the company listen to the users, put more attention on the bugs and hire some more/better English speaking personell, then finally starts better cooperation -I see the bright future for Net Make, alhtough some (perhaps Brasilian) way of thinking must be changed. In today's economy paying attention to the details and to the consumer is not a luxury - IT IS A MUST.

                  Arthur
                  -----------------------------------------
                  Arthur Klisiewicz
                  dATA POINT SOFTWARE
                  www.datapointsoftware.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, I agree with you Arthur, this does not happen only here, mainly in Brazil ...
                    But I'm not waiting for Netmaker solve, because I have no time, I always try alternative palliative! is boring? It is, but get upset just hoping not solve anything. Let us try and help solve these problems together.

                    A hug to everyone!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, man I'm with you, but this is the reason for my post, that I expect a litttle more opennes from NetMake to let us help them. Another words - I have a few ideas to make SC better but my offers and propositions get ignored.

                      NOTE:
                      Like several other users on this forum I just declare not to pay for the support because
                      - the help I did get so far wasn't woth the money
                      - I'm not willing to pay just to report the bugs and wait for them to get fixed
                      - the language barrier often doesn't let support people to understand my question (i.e. I asked once about the Parent/Child relationships and they did not know what am I talking about) :-(

                      Arthur

                      PS> I still want to believe NetMake will start listening to the users (espiecially those from outside of Brasil)!
                      Last edited by aka; 10-22-2013, 02:21 AM.
                      -----------------------------------------
                      Arthur Klisiewicz
                      dATA POINT SOFTWARE
                      www.datapointsoftware.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Agree in all things that have expressed here.
                        I also have purchased packages support hours, except in cases in which my own ignorance of SC I have gotten into any kind of trouble, until now I had to figure things out on my own, because the problems large or BUG, have not solved.
                        SC I think an excellent tool, but it is mistaken in not listen to our complaints and sometimes patience has limits, or rather development times are tyrants.
                        It has a fabulous tool which is the forum, much will you pay us to have an army of users testing our applications, bug looking forward ideas and solutions, and free up?
                        Leandro Carames
                        http://www.softnetbaires.com.ar

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Coincido en todas las cosas que han expresado aca.
                          Yo ademas he comprado paquetes de horas de soporte, y salvo casos en lo que mi propio desconocimiento de SC me han metido en algun lio, hasta ahora he tenido que resolver las cosas por mi cuenta, porque los problemas grandes o BUG, no los han solucionado.
                          SC me parece una herramienta excelente, pero se esta equivocando en no escuchar nuestros reclamos y la paciencia a veces tiene limites, o mejor dicho los tiempos de desarrollo son tiranos.
                          Tiene una herramienta fabulosa que es el foro, cuanto pagariamos nosotros para tener un ejercito de usuarios que prueben nuestras aplicaciones, busquen bug propongan ideas y soluciones, y encima gratis?
                          Leandro Carames
                          http://www.softnetbaires.com.ar

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There are tons of people who can help in documentation, customer support, forum etc. and THEY SPEAK FLUEN English. NertMake just has to open to international cooperation.
                            I was working with NetMake for some time but our cooperation was put on hold temporarily, and I can already see effect if it.

                            Arthur
                            -----------------------------------------
                            Arthur Klisiewicz
                            dATA POINT SOFTWARE
                            www.datapointsoftware.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Mmmm, I can agree that SC could be faster in things. We are still working on getting the beta team up and do other things to improve customer support. But it's going far too slow. I think it's a SC management issue, I don't have the idea that the problem lies on the work floor. But I agree fully. On the other hand, we need to communicate to the SC organisation which will limit language problems between end-users and SC, but intensifies the communication between the middlelayer (us) and SC.
                              Last edited by aducom; 10-26-2013, 06:44 AM.
                              Albert Drent
                              aducom software netherlands
                              scriptcase partner, reseller, support and (turn-key) development
                              www.scriptcase.eu / www.scriptcase.nl

                              Comment

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