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  • Create robust & user friendly deployment strategy

    I have wasted the best part of a day trying to deploy a project to a customer's linux/apache business class virtual host. We have significant control of the environment yet were unsuccessful in installing the deployment on the server. Eventually there was no option but to give up, as the server constantly gave us
    Forbidden
    You don't have permission to access /appdir/_lib/prod/lib/php/nm_ini_manager2.php on this server.

    This despite everything in _lib being 777 permissions.

    This is now the second deployment of an SC8 project I have had to abandon in the last six month. The other one related to ODBC not working on a Win7 server.

    The SC deployment system is its weakest link. For me it has become a deal breaker.

    Might I suggest that if my licensing fees are of any value to you (netmake), you focus on creating a deployment strategy for projects that is robust and un-obfuscated.

    Others have managed to create excellent installer strategies for their users (PHPRunner, Joomla etc). Why can't scriptcase?
    The GuiGuy
    ... from Down Under

  • #2
    hi GuiGuy, I'm not trying to defend sc here, you are right, it needs a lot of imporovments, but usually -as you know- these permissiosn problems in Linux has many solutions yet many of them are effective

    for example, forget about 777 thing, once I was using CentOS and kept doing that for 2 days without results, when finally revert back by mistake to 644 it worked fine, try different permissions sets, also notice that some of the Linux distributions do focus on all the above folders permissions like /abbdir/ AND /_lib AND prod AND lib AND php AND finally individual file nm_ini_manager2.php just change the set of folders and files permissions to other than 777 and make sure it is changed, FTP does not always change them, use SSH or direct access to GUI/Cpanel file manager if applicable

    good luck

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by MikeDE View Post
      hi GuiGuy, I'm not trying to defend sc here, you are right, it needs a lot of imporovments, but usually -as you know- these permissiosn problems in Linux has many solutions yet many of them are effective
      Thanks for the feedback. I'd like to think I am a reasonably experienced 'nix user and in this instance we have SSH server access. "chmod 777 -R _lib" certainly set everything wide open. As to why we would still have permission issues is now beyond my grasp.

      That said, I have just now finished hacking a small application together with PHPRunner and deployed it on the same server using PHPRunner's FTP function. It was simple, elegant and painless. After the deployment permissions were set by PHPRunner's deployment kit as they should be and everything worked.

      So back to my point; for me SC's deployment strategy has seldom been painless. More to the point, I am annoyed at with myself at having wasted so much time on this. And setting permissions to 777 on a web-server is not exactly good practice, is it?

      For anyone else listening in, if you are proposing an SC project to be deployed elsewhere, do a test project first, deploy it. Just to make sure SC hasn't left you out on a limb.
      The GuiGuy
      ... from Down Under

      Comment


      • #4
        GuiGuy, I'm sure you are a pioneer dear, I personally learnt many things from your previous posts thankfully, I just wanted to highlight that point as it happened with me earlier and strangely when it is supposed to work under 777 it worked under 644! while with 777 was giving errors perhaps is the linux distribution or something but it was weird for sure

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GuiGuy View Post
          I have wasted the best part of a day trying to deploy a project to a customer's linux/apache business class virtual host. We have significant control of the environment yet were unsuccessful in installing the deployment on the server. Eventually there was no option but to give up, as the server constantly gave us
          Forbidden
          You don't have permission to access /appdir/_lib/prod/lib/php/nm_ini_manager2.php on this server.

          This despite everything in _lib being 777 permissions.

          This is now the second deployment of an SC8 project I have had to abandon in the last six month. The other one related to ODBC not working on a Win7 server.

          The SC deployment system is its weakest link. For me it has become a deal breaker.

          Might I suggest that if my licensing fees are of any value to you (netmake), you focus on creating a deployment strategy for projects that is robust and un-obfuscated.

          Others have managed to create excellent installer strategies for their users (PHPRunner, Joomla etc). Why can't scriptcase?
          GuiGuy,

          At first glance it would appear to me that the culprit might be your Apache settings.
          Some things to try:

          1. Make sure that the UID of the httpd server process is the owner of the whole app tree (i.e., chown -R apache.apache /var/www/mysite) This eliminates having to set everything to 777.
          2. Make sure your host definition in httpd.conf defines the directory properly, and any .htaccess files are not interfering.

          What linux are you running? I am most familiar with RHEL/CentOS. If you need somebody to take a look, I'd be happy to, just PM me.

          Dave
          Last edited by daveprue; 02-18-2015, 02:23 AM.
          Dave Prue
          Code Whisperer
          Lahar International Corp
          www.lahar.net

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by daveprue View Post
            GuiGuy,
            What linux are you running? I am most familiar with RHEL/CentOS. If you need somebody to take a look, I'd be happy to, just PM me.
            Dave
            Hi Dave,
            As mentioned, the deployment is on a virtual host. I don't know that we have the level of control you suggest and frankly I am too worn out from struggling with SC.

            However, that is not my point here; there are a number of "RAD" type PHP systems out there. I have PHPRunner in my kit. Then there are any number of PHP web applications with installers. All seem to generally manage a friendly and relatively painless deployment & install. SC does not.

            Anyway, it doesn't matter. In this instance for what we wanted to do PHPRunner has done the job. The project is up and running on the customer's virtual host, other than a few bells and whistles that I'll create over the next few days. I'm only a day late.

            I have learnt my lesson. SC may be RAD PHP/AJAX but it is a PITA when it comes to deployment on remote servers.
            The GuiGuy
            ... from Down Under

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GuiGuy View Post
              I have learnt my lesson. SC may be RAD PHP/AJAX but it is a PITA when it comes to deployment on remote servers.
              Hi again,
              That will be your opinion, also wanna thank Dave for his point, it could be surly correct, didn't think of it actually... from what you say, it is in fact the only reason remains...

              I've been struggling for so long to know if there is competitors or something similar to SC functionality even if more expensive and found phpRunner thing, then when first read the reviews and saw how it works (didn't try it in depth) I don't think is comparable to the way that SC works.

              I'm not sure if is this allowed in the forums here, but I would really want to know if there is such thing like SC but bugs or errors less, more functionality, robust stuff, like those we lack in SC, even if expensive, even I don't think so.

              After-all, I agree with you, many things need improvements here, but again, like I always say, with high-level quality control SC could be number one all over, but this note is for the company owners and decision makers only who they don't read here looool

              Comment


              • #8
                I have * a lot * of experiences in competitive products and despite the flaws and issues with scriptcase I will not return to the current alternatives * ever *. You guys think that support of SC is bad? (It's not good, I agree). But see it as a bad dream. You will find your worse nightmare if you switch. I sleep well now ;-) There are complaints that there is no roadmap. I know of a competitor who has one (but it's the same for years, no progress what-so-ever, so false promises)

                pro's SC:

                regular updates (Some competitors don't even bother, do it once a year, or deploy a product that doesn't even start up after install (although V8 was close to that ;-)
                open forum (well, eh I know that sometimes some posts have been deleted, but that's a regular happening on a few competitors)
                active user community (yes, i have a lot of posts but there are more powerusers)
                loads of youtube movies
                regular webinars
                good value for money
                a lot of functionality

                cons SC:

                support is not good (too few support people have a good level of English and Google translate is not the way to go)
                quality assurance needs to improve (too many bugs on new versions)
                it's a digital lego, you can create almost anything, but you have to follow the building blocks. I don't see that as a real disadvantage, but if you want to be completely flexible then SC is not the product for you (but neither will be the competition).

                but:

                I am in close contact with SC staff and developers and I know that SC is working hard to improve these things. But they are comming from far and will need a lot of time to meet our standards.

                I think I can think of a lot of other things to put here, but it gives an idea.

                Then the install thing. I disagree on this point. I have been installing SC apps on a lot of platforms without any issues. Just create database and upload on linux as well as windows server. The trouble I sometimes have to solve are mostly about security and rights and that's not solvable in a simple package. If I install a cms or webshop I have exactly the same issues. With the databasebuilder you can dump the ddl and use that i.e. in phpMyAdmin to create your database. Even a carpenter uses different tools to achieve things. Scriptcase is a development tool. For database maintenance and php development there are far better tools.
                Last edited by aducom; 02-18-2015, 09:22 AM.
                Albert Drent
                aducom software netherlands
                scriptcase partner, reseller, support and (turn-key) development
                www.scriptcase.eu / www.scriptcase.nl

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have to agree to everything Albert said, uh wrote.

                  jsb

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    nice reply albert

                    i want to add a kinky note, do you believe it that I really enjoy when I do workaround that SC doesn't provide by default, then by your advice guys or something worked with me earlier I get what I want using differnet workaround or process to get it... I really enjoy the outcome when it is not easy enough, but i get very irritated when something gets stuck and can't do it

                    I am in close contact with SC staff and developers and I know that SC is working hard to improve these things
                    that is poromising, we can understand that clearly

                    Even a carpenter uses different tools to achieve things. Scriptcase is a development tool. For database maintenance and php development there are far better tools.
                    great example

                    wanna add a point which I feel it clear after few months of using SC so far... it is like a raw pizza ingredients, you've to build your pizza the way you like it, sometimes does't look tasty or doesn't look good as supposed to, here comes the rule of experienced chefs like Albert and power users here, sometimes a hint can solve big problems.... and when you want pizza-hut style top professional with extra stuff, you gotta involve jsb (no offence to others, we have many top guys here but jsb helped me a lot, I'm always thankful to him... also Albert did a dozen of times or more,,, adz111, kafecadm, Mr Dave, robydago, Giu, Jamie, and many others)

                    Although, what I mean is, if you noticed GuiGuy is not their job, and they are not paid to do so, but I guess is the best support we can get, even if SC guys involved they will not understand the issue as those who actually work closely on sc and have java/php experience... you might be experienced well, just think of the majority of us are still not that skillful and not everyone has the same background or long experience, add to that, we "enjoy" working on SC, or at least I feel it really fun how it works is unique until I get something else can prove that there is something better in the aspects that I personally measure. Once more, I agree with you GuiGuy regarding the deployment and that many things need improvements though.



                    cheers

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