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  • How to post bugs

    We have to consider, thath not always our problems are bugs, but mistakes, or using the tool in the bad way it's designed.

    What I suggest, is a way where we can improve a lot the way we report bugs to NetMake.

    First of all, is obvious we need to isolate the error to be sure it's a bug or not.

    Try to reproduce the bug on a blank project.
    1 Create a project, add the essential components for the behavior you need, and see if error reproduces.
    2 If bug is reproducible on a blank project, create a thread on this subforum writing about the problem and attach an export of this project to your message. If export is too big, upload to some storage service and provide a link.
    3 Don't forget to attach too some data dump to recreate database if needed. (SQL file, DUMP and so on..)

    1 is important because sometimes problems comes by our own mistakes, and trying to reproduce it on a blank project shows us if really is a mistake or a bug, and act in consequence.
    2 and 3 are very important too. I don't have time to do all the steps needed to try to reproduce the problem on all posts.

    Once you have your post, then report with a link to bug@scriptcase.net

    All here we are community members, and have to make easy the work for all.
    /Giuseppe

    Professional Scriptcase Services
    Some Customers opinions

  • #2
    Don't forget for achive use to post it on Mantis bugtracker at scriptcase.eu. I use this list for communication at Scriptcase. It's not commonly used unfortunately but I try to keep track of the reported issues for obvious reasons ;-)
    Albert Drent
    aducom software netherlands
    scriptcase partner, reseller, support and (turn-key) development
    www.scriptcase.eu / www.scriptcase.nl

    Comment


    • #3
      Giu,

      You mean like this?

      When and how do we ever get any response. Maybe we need a guide for how NetMake can respond to us?

      Dave
      Dave Prue
      Code Whisperer
      Lahar International Corp
      www.lahar.net

      Comment


      • #4
        giu and aducom,
        For the record and to "play devil's advocate"... we are not all here to be "community members". I have no interest in being a "community member". SC is not an open source project.

        I purchased licenses from a for profit company and I expect some sort of feedback from the companies I do business with. Just like myself and many others who log on to this forum, Netmake is a "for profit" business. The only reason I use this forum is because the "for Profit" business Netmake has no other customer support mechanism. Do you not read the complaints posted on this forum??

        For future reference, when I post to this forum (owned by Scriptcase) I am attempting to either find if someone else is/has experienced the same or similar issue, alert the company to issues with SC OR find out if the company is/has posted some sort of acknowledgement to the issue and when they expect to resolve the issue.

        If this forum belongs to you... I will stop using it. If you're simply (for the sake of labels) a "moderator" then moderate and stop interfering with or attempting to "moderate" how I and others are attempting to communicate with the company that owns this forum. You are NOT legal representatives of Netmake/Scriptcase.

        Stop responding as though I am doing business with you. I (and others) are not doing business with you and to be very blunt.... mind your own business. Stop lecturing others (such as myself) about "how patient we all need to be" with a "for profit" company who has demonstrated 1) customer support is very low or non-existent 2) on going releases, updates, patches etc. for a product that is "left up to the end user to find/deal with the bugs".

        Stu Buck
        Phoenix AZ

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by stubuck View Post
          giu and aducom,
          For the record and to "play devil's advocate"... we are not all here to be "community members". I have no interest in being a "community member". SC is not an open source project.

          I purchased licenses from a for profit company and I expect some sort of feedback from the companies I do business with. Just like myself and many others who log on to this forum, Netmake is a "for profit" business. The only reason I use this forum is because the "for Profit" business Netmake has no other customer support mechanism. Do you not read the complaints posted on this forum??

          For future reference, when I post to this forum (owned by Scriptcase) I am attempting to either find if someone else is/has experienced the same or similar issue, alert the company to issues with SC OR find out if the company is/has posted some sort of acknowledgement to the issue and when they expect to resolve the issue.

          If this forum belongs to you... I will stop using it. If you're simply (for the sake of labels) a "moderator" then moderate and stop interfering with or attempting to "moderate" how I and others are attempting to communicate with the company that owns this forum. You are NOT legal representatives of Netmake/Scriptcase.

          Stop responding as though I am doing business with you. I (and others) are not doing business with you and to be very blunt.... mind your own business. Stop lecturing others (such as myself) about "how patient we all need to be" with a "for profit" company who has demonstrated 1) customer support is very low or non-existent 2) on going releases, updates, patches etc. for a product that is "left up to the end user to find/deal with the bugs".

          Stu Buck
          Phoenix AZ
          Good luck.
          /Giuseppe

          Professional Scriptcase Services
          Some Customers opinions

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by daveprue View Post
            Giu,

            You mean like this?

            When and how do we ever get any response. Maybe we need a guide for how NetMake can respond to us?

            Dave
            This is the best way to report a bug. This allows others forums members and NetMake to reproduce the problem directly.

            About your second question, can't answer sorry. We fight for this as you do.
            /Giuseppe

            Professional Scriptcase Services
            Some Customers opinions

            Comment


            • #7
              @stu buck
              If I acted as if you where a customer of us then I'm sorry. For the record here: you are not.

              Reading your post, I don't think that you understand what we are trying to do. In the first place we are in the same boat as you. The only thing I know of to get a company rolling is to unite and form a front. Call it a usergroup. But not on the offensive way. It's good to be critical but you simply catch more flies with syrup than with vinigar. That's why I invest in creating a user community. I like Scriptcase as a product, but have loads of remarks on support and quality control. If you missed that, please google around here.

              I accept and respect other views. I don't identify myself with your last two paragraphs. I think I've been pretty clear in my opinon regarding the weak points of Scriptcase. But to be of help I won't be answering any of your questions any more if that would help you.
              Albert Drent
              aducom software netherlands
              scriptcase partner, reseller, support and (turn-key) development
              www.scriptcase.eu / www.scriptcase.nl

              Comment


              • #8
                i can understand stubuck frustrations even though he used strong language.
                You people dont get it whats its like having a big customer breathing down on your kneck and scriptcase takes its sweet time to resolve a problem!!
                @ GIU, daveprue POSTED A BUG EXACTLY AS YOU RECOMENDED...HOW DID IT TAKE TO SOLVE IT? MORE THAN 3 MONTHS....ACTUALLY THERE IS NO INDICATION HE GOT A RESPONSE!!

                THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT FREAKS ME OUT ABOUT NETMAKE...I LIKE THEIR PRODUCT, I HAVENT FOUND ANY EQUAL & BELIEVE ME I HAVE SEARCHED ...BUT SUPPORT IS HELL...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by luckyelms View Post
                  i can understand stubuck frustrations even though he used strong language.
                  You people dont get it whats its like having a big customer breathing down on your kneck and scriptcase takes its sweet time to resolve a problem!!
                  I have my own developments and my own customers. Dont forget I dont live from NetMake but our custom development services.
                  I'm NetMake customer too, not an employee.


                  @ GIU, daveprue POSTED A BUG EXACTLY AS YOU RECOMENDED...HOW DID IT TAKE TO SOLVE IT? MORE THAN 3 MONTHS....ACTUALLY THERE IS NO INDICATION HE GOT A RESPONSE!!

                  THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT FREAKS ME OUT ABOUT NETMAKE...I LIKE THEIR PRODUCT, I HAVENT FOUND ANY EQUAL & BELIEVE ME I HAVE SEARCHED ...BUT SUPPORT IS HELL...
                  [/QUOTE]

                  And what do you think I can do? I just posted best guidelines to make sure a bug is a bug, and to make netmake the path easy to reproduce it and solve it, because forum is full of bug posts thath doesnt bugs. Sometimes I contact directly to try tobl get things solved soon..sometimes works,sometimes not.

                  I agree...netmake needs a full restructuration for support and community communication.
                  /Giuseppe

                  Professional Scriptcase Services
                  Some Customers opinions

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So, my conclusion is that this is not a useful way to report bugs.

                    It does not work. Please look at this thread: http://www.scriptcase.net/forum/show...onRecord-event

                    I followed the "procedure" exactly, and 5 months later I still have no response from NetMake other than Bartho's copy/paste which is meaningless.

                    So, all I have accomplished by "following the rules" has been to waste my time.


                    Dave
                    Dave Prue
                    Code Whisperer
                    Lahar International Corp
                    www.lahar.net

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by daveprue View Post
                      So, my conclusion is that this is not a useful way to report bugs.

                      It does not work. Please look at this thread: http://www.scriptcase.net/forum/show...onRecord-event

                      I followed the "procedure" exactly, and 5 months later I still have no response from NetMake other than Bartho's copy/paste which is meaningless.

                      So, all I have accomplished by "following the rules" has been to waste my time.


                      Dave
                      I understand you Dave, but are just guidelines. Is better what you did thath posts thath doesn't helps like

                      "I have an error, SOLVE IT ASAP"

                      If we, with a report like I suggest, provide a project/sample wathever, is faster for NetMake to replicate the problem than to create the same projcet, and maybe, don't get the error.

                      You bumped your thread, probably, as since 2 weeks or so, NetMake team is more involved in forums, probably will look at it (before, your bump thread was buried). Otherwise I will try to send a PING to them later.
                      /Giuseppe

                      Professional Scriptcase Services
                      Some Customers opinions

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Being a voice of reason here....

                        I totally get stubuck's position. As a "for profit" company, NetMake should offer some ability to not only report bugs but also to have an SLA available for a response and a resolution. Currently there are neither, and that's not acceptable for software that my company (of which I'm one of the owners) pays for. We have renewed our license every year for going on 4 years now. The logical path of thought is that buying software as opposed to using open source software should give us the ability to contact someone and report a bug, especially when it seems we are beta testers for the updates. I got bit this morning by an update and it's brought my ability to develop for a customer to a crawl. This is not acceptable and needs to be changed.

                        However,

                        Giu, thank you for posting a suggested path for reporting bugs. I guess my frustration is that if I spent an hour yesterday developing some applications for a customer, and today I come in, do the updates, and it breaks my work from yesterday, why should I have to spend another 2+ hours creating a new project, replicating all of the functions of the original applications, create a simplified test database, export it and the database, and send it off to NetMake? How about instead, I contact NetMake and allow someone on their end to remote into my computer, see what I see, and take that knowledge back to the development team on the Scriptcase side? I understand that every environment and every project is different and it's impossible for them to anticipate every nuance of each of our development environments, but starting with v8 they more or less forced me into a model where my dev box had to run it's own scriptcase instance of apache. This then meant that I had to have a second web server to run the other common tools I use like phpMyAdmin and others, but it created a "scriptcase supported" installation environment. I actually remember creating three virtual servers the day I upgraded from v7 to v8 -- one that was a production web server for generated code, one that was a dev web server with just scriptcase v8 on it, and one that was a database server because - hey - if I'm gonna have to build a server room to develop an application, let's go all out and separate MySQL from the LAMP stack, right???

                        Aducom, you've got to figure out a way for us to buy you virtual beers. Or, if you don't drink beer, how about a way to send you cash or a gift certificate or something? Seriously, if you don't know this guy, he has bailed me out of so many scriptcase messes and provided tutorials for how to do things in scriptcase that wasn't adequately documented or even thought of in the code. I've been a Systems Engineer for 21 years at this point and a Senior Systems Engineer for the last 5. When someone is as talented as aducom is in something like Scriptcase, he does not deserve to be insulted in forums. Sorry, stubuck, but on this one I have to disagree with you. In all seriousness, NetMake should be paying aducom for his solutions on here. It's criminal that a dude that doesn't even work for them solves more problems than their support team does...

                        With respect for all,
                        Paul

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by anomaly0617 View Post

                          Giu, thank you for posting a suggested path for reporting bugs. I guess my frustration is that if I spent an hour yesterday developing some applications for a customer, and today I come in, do the updates, and it breaks my work from yesterday, why should I have to spend another 2+ hours creating a new project, replicating all of the functions of the original applications, create a simplified test database, export it and the database, and send it off to NetMake? How about instead, I contact NetMake and allow someone on their end to remote into my computer, see what I see, and take that knowledge back to the development team on the Scriptcase side?
                          Because this is "impossible" to do. Sometimes, is not SC fault, but developers faults. Replicate the project on a blank project, is not to do the job for SC, is to make sure for yourself other things are not affecting to your particular issue. Can you imagine how many people you need on suppot to do this? I saw code where events are not working, but is because some custom JS don't correctly done, and this breaks all JS on a page. Is not SC fault, is developer fault, and NetMake should focus on SC, no on teach how to develop. Said that, I wrote other post about how to upgrade (safely). Because you can't rollback an upgrade of SC, just, backup before, and save this backup until you know it's working as expected. Yes, I don't like it too much either, but it is the right thing.

                          I understand that every environment and every project is different and it's impossible for them to anticipate every nuance of each of our development environments, but starting with v8 they more or less forced me into a model where my dev box had to run it's own scriptcase instance of apache. This then meant that I had to have a second web server to run the other common tools I use like phpMyAdmin and others, but it created a "scriptcase supported" installation environment. I actually remember creating three virtual servers the day I upgraded from v7 to v8 -- one that was a production web server for generated code, one that was a dev web server with just scriptcase v8 on it, and one that was a database server because - hey - if I'm gonna have to build a server room to develop an application, let's go all out and separate MySQL from the LAMP stack, right???
                          Sorry, but I don't fully understand why you did all of this. I mainly work with 2 SC instances. One on my computer because I like to work locally on my laptop, and another on my company server. My laptop has an automatic SC installation with it's apache under Windows 10, and my server has a manual installation of SC under Linux.
                          /Giuseppe

                          Professional Scriptcase Services
                          Some Customers opinions

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            anomaly0617
                            Tnx, for your kind words. Yes, I do drink beer ;-) And I don't get paid for my activities here and I pay for my own subscriptions. Not an issue, because it's a simple matter of economy. As long as I can create applications for our customers and earn money by that I don't mind paying for my licences. As soon as the customerbase gets dry, I will simply stop using Scriptcase, as simple as that.

                            I've not been very succesful building the community I liked, but scriptcase still is a great product. But their response on bugs and issues is still to be improved a lot. Same goes for their support. I know that some of the developers are Portuguese only and that Google translate is not the way to translate questions to Portuguese and the answers back to English although it has generated a lot of laughs. But in fact, if you operate on the international market - as we do - then English should be priority number one. And no - I don't mean the portuguese in the sourcecode, I don't mind).

                            I must admit that the support has improved over the years, but they have still a long, long way to go.

                            Albert Drent
                            aducom software netherlands
                            scriptcase partner, reseller, support and (turn-key) development
                            www.scriptcase.eu / www.scriptcase.nl

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Giu View Post
                              Sorry, but I don't fully understand why you did all of this. I mainly work with 2 SC instances. One on my computer because I like to work locally on my laptop, and another on my company server. My laptop has an automatic SC installation with it's apache under Windows 10, and my server has a manual installation of SC under Linux.
                              Giu every development environment is different. In the line of work I do, we have some requirements for development that may not be "usual" and "customary" for standard development environments. For instance, in the case of ScriptCase, we have multiple developers that use the same installation instance, just not concurrently. This means the installation of ScriptCase cannot be on a laptop as it needs to be accessible to multiple developers at different times. Additionally, we have to meet a requirement from our clients that their data -- even dummy data or test data -- cannot be stored off-site from our facility, which had to -- and has to continue to -- pass certain security standards. As a result, no code ever leaves the building. We VPN in over encrypted tunnels to access the data. We are required to log who and when access was granted... etc... In the instance I mentioned above where I would allow NetMake to remote in and see what I saw, I'd have to record the entire session and keep it on file for a minimum of 13 months and potentially up to 60 months. So, while I'd love to install ScriptCase on my laptop and access it from anywhere, sometimes the client's requirements say otherwise.

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